Sex after birth with Sexologist Naomi

So stay tuned, because Naomi Hutchings is a clinical sexologist currently living in Queensland, and she’s been working in this field of human sexuality in a number of roles for over 17 years. Naomi offers sexuality and relationships, counseling and education. And its currently online sessions only. And you might have heard Naomi in a few different media platforms such as Triple J, The Hookup and she’s on quite a few podcasts too.

Before we dive into this amazing episode with Naomi, if you are pregnant, or you’ve had a baby, I invite you to come and join FitNest Mama. So FitNest Mama has the exercises but also support and resources that you need to feel good from the inside out. And these Pilates and yoga based workouts a tired-mum friendly, achy-mum friendly and toddler friendly that you can do in the convenience of the home the end of a long day whilst you Bubba sleeps, or whilst your toddler is running around causing havoc. So head to www.fitnestmama.com to join our amazing community of pregnant and new mums today. Right. Let’s dive into this episode with Naomi.

And Naomi, thank you so much for joining me today on the FitNest Mama Podcast.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Thanks for having me.

KATH BAQUIE

So to start off with, what is a sexologist? So what do you do and why? What made you go into this area?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Sexologist really just means that I went and studied human sexuality at university level. And I’ve also done like a lot of training, I’ve been in the area for about 17 years, probably a bit more than that doing sex education, but pretty much people do either research or there may be combiner. But generally, they either do what I do, which is work with people. And so like in sort of like a counselling context, education context, some people do teaching. So education I’ve done that I used to teach him and sexuality back in Adelaide at Flinders University and other ways, training professionals and things like that. And then also research and so some people do a bit of a combo of that, or some people just sort of stick to one area. Yeah, so pretty much human sexuality is our jam. That’s what we do.

KATH BAQUIE

And did you just want to do it right from high school?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Actually, look, I had an unplanned pregnancy, I went to a Catholic school, I probably mentioned this on another podcast or on the radio or something. But I left school, I had an unplanned pregnancy. And I didn’t go back to study until I was 21. Because back then you had to wait until you were 21. If you didn’t do your 12 or whatever it’s called in the different states. But if you didn’t finish that you had to wait to be a mature age student. And that was considered 21 years mature age I got in that way. I started doing some studies and then just kind of went into women’s studies and then kind of just started doing volunteer work at spaces and then training and different things. And yeah, that’s how I got into it feeling like I had a very, very not adequate sex education and I wanted to do something about it

KATH BAQUIE

Oh, wow. That’s amazing. So that pregnancy just totally shaped your future.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Yes, I have a 29-year-old.

KATH BAQUIE

That’s beautiful.

Okay, so going back into the question, like, what are some of the most common issues that you find people experienced during pregnancy and after birth then when it comes to sexuality and sexual intercourse and all the rest?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

For a lot of people, it’s just this adjustment and not wanting to be sexual as much as they used to or at all. So just an adjustment of the couple if it’s a couple, and how to sort of manage all of that and even really like so yes, sometimes there’s pain and different things body image from that. And again, I want to say that it’s from pregnancy, but it can be that. It’s just the adjustment of having children. So it’s not even just the pregnancy thing. It’s like this family is here now and how are we living our life with these children everywhere and that kind of stuff and finding time for ourselves as a couple.

KATH BAQUIE

Oh, and this is such a big thing that we can dissect. Like, it’s huge, isn’t it?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

It’s absolutely huge. And I suppose one other thing would be I do see a lot of by the way, people who are trying to conceive, particularly if they are having sex themselves, okay? Because obviously, babies, people make families lots of ways, but for those who are, sex is about making a baby, I see a lot of them who then have trouble with their sexual life, because it all became about just having the baby and funds drawn out of it. So that’s probably they’re asking those two categories because I see people for a lot of reasons, but around these would be those two.

KATH BAQUIE

Okay, let’s talk about that. Because I remember it too, thinking okay, let’s do it. Let’s have a baby, right time to have sex and just to you know, to switch the button.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

if I’ve got a man and a woman, so I’ve got some of the penis some of the vagina in a bed, I quite often actually see a very kind of hurt man, upset, feeling a bit like all he’s wanting to see his firm, I see that a bit. Quite a bit. And they’re really struggling and just feel like Yeah, it’s like that. This is all she’s wanting me for. So I see a bit of that, or anyone, just whoever it is just trying to have a baby and saying sex isn’t sexy anymore. And yeah, of course, what you just mentioned trying to get in the mood. So for someone with a penis, that’s a lot of bloody pressure, like, you know, it’s like right now, quick, let’s go, we’ve got this time, which is not always a great thing. It’s like, oh, maybe I’m stressed, maybe you know, what if my penis doesn’t stand up, so I get a lot of that. Or just, if it’s the person with the vagina, going, Oh, God, I better do it now. I think we spend a lot of time trying to unpack what that does to their sex, sex life in general.

KATH BAQUIE

And you bring up a really good point. And it’s something I’ve been trying to be more conscious of, and aware of, you know, these days, and I’ve interviewed beautiful people on the podcast who’ve chosen to have babies by themselves. So it’s not just a heterosexual couple that are having, you know, sex, penis and vagina, it’s, there’s so many. And I still tend to fall into the like, the lingo and it’s something I’m working on.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

And that’s all you can do keep going and working, you’ll get better and better at it. I said it, we will stop being so frightened of you know, we’re all going to make mistakes, because we’re just constantly catching up. And we’ll never know everything will never will. But we’ve just got to keep going, keep doing little things like researching different language, things like that. And because it’s the dominant narrative that we’ve been fed, of course, right? They still do it everywhere. So just kind of changing your language and being mindful, it doesn’t sort of erase anyone’s experience if we are trying to be a bit more inclusive, right? With our language.

KATH BAQUIE

And on that note, what are the different combinations of people having babies like what what do you…

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

What do I see? All sorts. I’m getting a lot like a lot more people who are not just couples, throuples. But yeah, I see all sorts. I see, I do see single people, couples, and that they’re of all genders. And so sometimes people are doing it very much like a friend or friends donating some sperm, or they’re all doing it together. Sometimes people are using the clinics, the IVF clinics. So yeah, I see people of all genders all structures all the time. And I absolutely see people in their own too.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, absolutely. Diving back into because you’re brushing over so much now.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

I know.

KATH BAQUIE

I just totally want to dive deep. So going back to what you’re talking about, let’s start with the person with a penis, okay. So if they’re thinking, Okay, this is the time and they know that there’s a window, they’ve got to have sex during that window, what are some tips around that?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

I think that’s where we just need to start talking about that. Because I think there is still this belief for folks who don’t have penises, that penises just do this, they stand up and they’re ready to go. Because that’s almost again, the narrative we’ve been fed. So I think there needs to be just an understanding that that might not be able to happen sometimes. And look, you can’t ejaculate without an erect penis. It’s just different. And, you know, but I think it’s more about trying to make everything a bit more relaxed. And knowing that, you know, there’s plenty of time to do that. And I know when I say that I might, some people are very, very kind of conscious of time and things like that. But you know, I tried to say to people, you know, there’s ways to do things and look if you have to, if you need to go off because you’re super nervous and you need to go masturbate by yourself. If that calms everything down. There’s ways to get that sperm inside the vagina. People can do it. There’s plenty of ways of doing it, you know. To be honest, in general, I’m pretty much saying this all the time about being so much more flexible about how, what is our definition of sex and what we’re doing sexually. And when I mean flexible, I don’t mean like legs, arms, you know that I mean, flexible in our expectations, like just, you know, chilling out about things and not thinking it has to go the plan that a baby must be made with a penis inside the vagina and orgasm thing and having a fabulous time. It may be sometimes that won’t happen, you know, in the end, it happens and someone doesn’t know, what do they call those cups? People do all sorts of things. And I think it’s about trying to maybe let go of some of those sexpectations of things, you know.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, I like that. And I work closely with quite a few sexologists and psychologists too, because I see women coming in with dyspareunia or vaginismuses. So that’s painful intercourse. And there’s a lot of that expectation where if it’s not penis in vagina, then it’s not sex. So there’s so much more to it. There’s outer courses. Oh, my gosh, there’s so many different layers.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Yeah, and I think that’s it. It’s around I you know, I say to people, like it’s really good if you can redefine what sex means. And then it’s like, also people with penises if they’re having sex, a lot of people with penises, does that mean that they’re not having sex, like, it’s a strange thing. So and I think the better you get at opening up your sexual script, it just gives you so many more options. And that P and the V is just one thing. So what I will often do is I’ll practice with couples, like they’ll be talking to me and they’ll say things like, Oh, we haven’t had sex for five years, and I’m okay. Then I’m like, tell me do you mean P in the V? Because usually, I’ve got a man and a woman and most common combination of people I see, really? And they’ll go, oh, no, no, we do this, this, this and this. We just as it all, so you haven’t just had, you just haven’t had, you know, vaginal penetration, then they go? Yeah, so you still having sex? And they’re like, oh, and then we just spend a lot of time letting go of all that stuff. Because then it’s more helpful not to know I suppose we have, you know, so it’s that thing of going, oh there really just put the p in the v and that right up there as the hierarchy of sex acts. And you know, not everybody feels like that. That’s not how they get pleasure. And also, if you’ve got a penis, it can relax a bit, knowing that there’s other ways to do that, that don’t just send to the penis and mean that everything’s on you.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, we need a new term for it, don’t we?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Yeah, totally. I just call it all sex. I’m like, whatever it is, is that and I’m very specific about, “Are you talking about P in the V? Is that what you mean? Like penetration? So I’m breaking it up. So sex meaning because you know, two people can have a beautiful sexual experience and they’re on the phone. They’re like talking to each other. And there’s this erotic thing going on. And the better we are at being open to that we’re all going to have better sex.

KATH BAQUIE

Okay, so let’s take it back to the new mum, who’s exhausted, she’s just gone to a six-week check-up. The doctor says, yes, you can get back to having sex. She leaves that check-up and that, you know, partners waiting there expectantly. She’s exhausted, she’s tired, her boobs are sore. What do you have to say around that?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

I mean, first off, make sense, right? It’s funny that you know, this whole thing people sometimes, you know, get together and their love makes a baby, right? That’s how sometimes people have babies. Right? And this baby then causes havoc, and you know, yay for babies, but you know, they certainly can. And I think, again, this is that thing of just letting go of this idea that you should be doing this. And I say that, you know, quotation, it’s like, why who says this? It’s just because we just get fed these messages. And I suppose, a. if you’ve been given the all clear, and let’s be honest, I see a lot of people who have had penetrative sex way before six weeks, they feel like they can they’ve been fine, they do it right. But also that there are that that thing of options around having options, but also having an understanding that this might be a different time and sex actually may not happen and to be okay with that, you know, it’s okay that you know, some time in your life, you are going to be just totally absorbed in what’s going on. You know, whether it’s a big love bubble baby thing, or you’re just like, absolutely beside yourself and stressed out and depressed, whatever’s going on. I think that’s the thing that, you know, because we get fed this stuff around, you know, you can have all the sex you want now, and sex and pleasure, which is all great. But also it’s almost to the point that sex positive movement is now not acknowledging that some people don’t want to have sex or in our lives, we will take sex breaks and that’s okay. And we’re not broken. What’s broken and then it tells us that we are.

KATH BAQUIE

Absolutely. And the hormonal changes that occur after having a baby, we’re low on oestrogen. If you’re breastfeeding, you got vaginal dryness. Like it’s almost your body’s natural way of saying, I don’t want sex because my job is now to look after my baby. So it is totally normal to have a reduction in libido and all those things.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Absolutely, absolutely. And that set thing and then deciding what do you need? And I think it’s really important that the partner understands it’s not their partner’s job to get them off. Okay? Yes, people get together and we give each other pleasure, right? But if you think that’s your job, or it’s your partner, this is not a great way to be having a relationship. It’s like it, no, okay, you have a right to want to have sex if you feel like that, but you don’t have a right to ask your partner to do that all the time. It’s like, let’s talk about what that is. And also, what do you need? Because what are you getting from sex? So sometimes people just want the release, but other people want the connection. So it’s like, okay, well, if sex is off the card, some kind of sexual stuff, what else can we do to feel connected? And you know, people, sometimes partners feel a little bit left out. They can. Not always, but they certainly can. So it’s about having that conversation. And also understanding, I keep saying to couples, we just have to yell out at each other sometimes say, oh, my gosh, isn’t like crazy right now. It’s just full on. Look, what have we done? It’s okay to feel bewildered. And also, yeah, just so we’re going to get through this. It’s not always going to be like this. Because it’s alright, right? That newborn phase does not last.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, it’s, it’s huge. And you bring up a few really good points there. And it sounds like it’s all coming back to communication. And that’s where the sooner we can open up this dialogue of communication with our partner, the better because you don’t want to be communicating for the first time about sex when you’re exhaust sleep deprived and exhausted and hormonal and all the rest.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Absolutely, absolutely. And just like I said, masturbation, solo masturbation is important, too. That’s your job. Like, it’s your job to take care of your sexual needs. Okay. It’s not your partner’s job. Except of course, we do that willingly, right? You know, we didn’t come to this partnership with the idea, your job is to get me off. I think that’s a really, we have to let that go and go, no, actually, we’re doing this because we want to do this. And then it’s about just sort of talking about are you open to something some sort of connection, and that’s where you’ve got to stick with that. And I don’t want anyone to have sex when they don’t want to have sex. But I will often talk to people about is your know, you know, think of it in this other way often use the example of like, I don’t know, say you’re sitting down, you’re watching an amazing Netflix documentary or something, and you’re so into it. And then comes your partner dressed in some hiking gear and says, “Honey, do you want to go on a hiking?” And you’re like, “No.” Like, you just bewildered, you’re like, what, but then maybe you go, Wait, hang on. Last time we did this, it was actually really good. We had such a lovely time, hang on a second. So you’re still not into it. But you’re like, wait a minute, and then the partner who’s all dressed up in hiking gear isn’t bothered by the fact that you’re not into it, they understand you were really not even thinking about this, no one’s feeling shitty with each other. So okay, and then you slowly, maybe go get your gear on. And then you drive to where the hike is. And then off, you go on a hike kind of thing and have a good time. I often ask people is that where you’re now is? So it’s, I want to make it very clear not to have sex, if you don’t want anybody, are you in that space where like anything, you wouldn’t feel like going to a party, you wouldn’t feel like going to dinner where most of us can remember a time where we didn’t want to go to the gym. Not that I do that. But you know, I used to go to the gym. And I’m like, but you don’t feel silly or beat yourself up for that feeling. Because you know, like later, often you’ll go I’m glad I did that. That was really good. And a lot of my couples will say, Oh, yeah, once we do it, it’s good. I’m glad I did it. And I’m like, okay.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, I like that. I think something to do with that is the to do list in our brain. And so if we’re thinking, Oh, but I’ve got all these things I need to do first like, this is having sex is not having my priorities. But having said that, anything we do for ourselves exercising, it’s often on the to do list, but after we do it, feels good. So I like the fact that you bring up if you do it, will you feel? Yeah.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Well, that because obviously that’s where if someone says, “You know, actually, every time I do it’s hideous.” And then we start going through the list of reasons what that is. That’s a whole different thing. But if generally, you have a good time, I always say to people, is it just a real? No, like, absolutely like hell no, I’m off and that your partner is totally okay with you saying that. That’s the also the important thing to know, you’re free to say no without consequences, because sometimes people sulk, they don’t talk. And then there’s this whole thing. And then of course, then they say yes. Which to me is like a worst. Yes. And then it’s becomes this thing. So it’s about trying to work through all of those things, which is what obviously, I’m doing in sessions unpacking what’s going on. But I do just get people to think of that, because I can remember times where, you know, someone said, “Do you want to go to a party?” And I’m like, “Nah”, and then you know, you go and go, actually, that wasn’t bad. Like, actually, I had a good time. I’m glad I came. So I kind of tried to think about it like that. And I get it. We have many things on our list. And that’s a whole another conversation around whether you’re more responsibly aroused, which happens a lot, much more for people with vaginas, but I absolutely see people with penises like this, who don’t actually get spontaneously aroused at all. Like that’s just not how it is they actually make a decision or they have to do something, then they get aroused, then they desire the situation and the person or whatever.

KATH BAQUIE

You’re right. So by identifying what you’re saying is if you can identify what how you get aroused, then you can…

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Think about oh, I need, I’ll need this and then it will I’ll probably get into this and be okay. I think that’s one of the biggest things is just to take this on and say it’s okay then I’m not jumping this person’s bones. I’m not like ripping my clothes off and feel like this and to stop being offended by that. I think, you know, of course, don’t get me wrong, I see people who the reason they don’t want to have sex is because something is going on. They’re not into their partner. Okay? But most of the time, that’s not it. It’s this other stuff. And then they’re ashamed almost, especially if they’re with someone who spontaneously aroused. So they compare themselves to that, like, well, how come I don’t, why don’t feel like that. And the person who spontaneously says, how come they don’t feel like that? What’s wrong with them. And we have to have this conversation about actually, we’ve been also fed crap about the way people experience arousal and stuff. And that for a lot of people, this comes later.

KATH BAQUIE

When I was at uni, studying physio, we had some psychology lectures, and I don’t remember much about it. But one thing that’s really stuck is the passionate phase of love. So you know, the fireworks, and that lasts between six to 18 months, and after that, it becomes a companionship stage of love. And so that’s why lots of relationships break down at the end of that passionate stage of love, because people think they’ve fallen out of love, whereas often they’re falling into a different phase.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Yeah, they’re going in a different space. And I think that’s what people do, I keep saying to people, it’s like, free, it’s apples and oranges don’t compare the beginning of a relationship, because most of the time, I mean, I see couples who get together through their family cultural stuff, but for the ones who’ve had that real, oh, my gosh, can’t keep my hands off of each other. There’s like science behind that and the brain and kept here, they like a drug, but you can’t live like that. That’s what you may find that in relationships, it does come back a bit. But often, it’s not going to be like that. There’s a whole bunch of other things you don’t really truly know what this person is like, or what your libido if that’s what you want to call it, you know, so people don’t have that combo at the beginning, going, by the way, once that that new relationship energy goes away, how often do you really like sex? You know, and then often people say, actually, I always knew it goes away, and I’m not really into it that much. And then someone else goes, Oh, no, even after I’m always wanting sex, and I hook up with someone who’s that the other way. And it’s like trying to work through this. Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Interesting, isn’t it? And I think the different life stages, like having a meal with your partner is never the same once you have a baby, because you get interrupted by, you know, you’re breastfeeding, or you get interrupted by kids that are running around. And same when you exercise with kids. You know, it’s never the same. So I think changing expectations around once you have kids, that will be different.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Absolutely. Yeah. Look, I think I think it’s also just trying to go with the flow. And not to say that people don’t have passionate sex after babies. Yes, they do. But there’s, it’s just going to ebb and flow about what’s going on and we need to be more open to do that. Often couples say on me, you know, how they’re having sex. I’m so weird. What’s going on? I sit there and say, tell me about your day. And they go, I’m up at four with the baby. And then I’m doing this at five and then. And you know, and I realized you know, I’m so yeah. And then you want to have sex, when and then well no, when I get to bed. After bath, after we put the dishes away. After we’ve done this. I’m like, are you kidding? Most people get to bed. And if someone said to me to do some physical exercise, and I’m, like, get stuffed. No. And a lot of people will say that. I mean, you might be a night owl, and it works. But not for everybody. It’s not the optimal time. They’re just tired. And it makes sense. And when you sort of break it down and say that out loud. I think people feel less. You know, like, oh, my gosh, we’ve got this huge problem. I’m like, do you struggle to fit in your family? gatherings? You know, maybe family holidays? We schedule a lot of things? And oh, yeah, okay, then they start sort of understanding. Yeah, this is not as unusual, as you know, making this super alarming. So then it’s like, how do we find each other in the midst of this chaos of life?

KATH BAQUIE

Gosh, there’s so much to navigating, isn’t there? A friend of mine, their kids love Thomas, the Tank Engine. And so every Saturday morning, they’d put on Thomas the Tank Engine, they knew I’d get them quick, 10 minutes, off they went.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Perfect. I think I said that once on another radio interview. I’m like baby, go put frozen on or whatever it is just do what you need to do. And for times, it may be just a very short experience. And it’s like a you need to put something in front of the door. Because a lot of my parents, I’m like, tell me what some of your kind of breaks are what’s getting in the way. And then there’ll be like, I cannot relax, I can’t relax, I think the kids are going to walk in. So I talked to them about shoving something near the door or whatever. So at least then you’ve got enough to go look, if they bang, they still might bang on the door and say, “Can I have a water for the 10th time?” or whatever, but you’ve got enough time to gather yourself. And obviously the little your children are you don’t have to explain it as much as they have no idea what you’re doing. But as they get older, they’re like, what’s that sound? And then you get to have a whole another conversation.

KATH BAQUIE

I have to get you on the podcast for another talk about that. Yeah.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

But that’s right. I was like, what is it then that’s going to help you? You know, like, how are you going to get a little bit of time to do this?

KATH BAQUIE

You brought up something earlier that I wanted to ask a dive into a little bit more. We were talking about communication with partner and how that is just so important, you know, from as soon as possible. What would be a few tips for if someone’s listening today thinking I’ve never really, like spoken to my partner about sex, and they’ve never had those outward conversations, which I think is quite common. What would you say starting point to opening up that dialogue?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

I think I’m also picking the time when the conversation is because sometimes people will just do that they’ll fight or something like that. And I go, Oh, by the way, we’re not having sex or that kind of thing. And I think sometimes people will be like, Oh, you haven’t had sex for ages, and you never initiate. And they say all this stuff. And I kind of get people to sort of make this a bit more of a team thing of going, honey, I miss you, I miss your body, we have not, how are we going to get through this kind of thing, but also just you sometimes you will be uncomfortable. If you haven’t done this, and I keep reminding people, we can get comfortable with uncomfortable conversations. Okay. So it’s about starting that saying, Hey, I’m wondering, you know, I really love it when we’re connected. We’re not doing that as much. Let’s talk about what does that mean to you? Okay, how can we do this so that you can find each other, you can find some intimacy in the middle? And often people have never asked their partner, like, what does sex even mean to you? You know, I’ll see so many shocked faces of my couples of someone’s like, I not, it’s, it’s definitely not something I care about, I could go without it the rest of my life and someone else’s, like I want every day or die without it. And obviously, literally, they won’t die without it. But it’s so important. They truly do think like that. So then it’s like how to manage that, you know, how you’re feeling like, hopefully about a sexual relationship, you know, just have those combos, just like, hopefully people are having conversations about how’s our relationship going, where our goal was, or you know, that kind of stuff, and then you get comfortable at doing it, right?

KATH BAQUIE

That’s perfect for my next question. When might people benefit from coming to see a sexologist?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Anytime really, I mean, I think, you know, I often see people when they’re at the end, they’re kind of almost breaking up because things are feel a bit pear shaped. Or I’ve seen people who have, you know, had the bad news for sport, like, I’ve got a six-year-old come and he’s never spoken to anyone like, so I think at any point, if you feel like you just want to unpack some stuff, like, it’s very common for me to have just one session, we go through a whole bunch of things, and I help them hopefully to take away less restrictive narratives about sex so that it’s more helpful than harmful, right? I do see people for years too. It’s just I commonly see shorter term clients, I think, just because of the nature of the way that I work. But anytime sometimes I see couples that just to kind of like, we just want to make sure we’re on the right track doing this. And you know, it’s lovely. And then other times, I’ve never had a conversation and someone feels a bit dragged into the session. And we have chats like that. So whenever and sometimes people come on alone first, and then I bring their partner in or invite their partner in there. Yeah, just depends.

KATH BAQUIE

Such a great service. So where can people find you, Naomi?

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

At the moment, I’m all online. So I used to be face to face as well. But at the minute, I’m all online, because I might be moving. So all you need to do is just get Google Naomi Hutchings or I’m Australian sexologist on Instagram. But if you just Google me anyway, I’ll come up and you can just walk you don’t need a referral, you just take it, you’ll get sent a zoom link just like we are on Zoom now.

KATH BAQUIE

Brilliant. And I’ll put those links in the show notes. And if you’ve listened to this episode, and you enjoyed it, and you got something out of it, please do send us both a message on Instagram. We would love to hear from you. On that note. Thank you, Naomi. Thanks for joining me. It’s so lovely to chat.

NAOMI HUTCHINGS

Thank you. Thanks for talking about this stuff. It’s important. Thank you.

KATH BAQUIE

Great. Chat you soon.

And before I sign off, remember my team and I will be putting together the show notes for this episode with all the links, including how to connect with Naomi, at www.fitnestmama.com/podcast. And also don’t forget to send us a DM, send us both a DM and let us know what you thought of this episode. We would love to hear from you. Have a fabulous day everyone. And I look forward to you joining me next week for another episode of the FitNest Mama Podcast.

Thanks for listening to the FitNest Mama Podcast brought to you by the FitNest Mama Freebies found at www.fitnestmama.com/free. So please take a few seconds to leave a review, subscribe, so you don’t miss an episode. And be sure to take a screenshot of this podcast, upload it to your social media and tag me, @fitnestmama, so I can give you a shout out too. Until next time! Remember, an active pregnancy, confident childbirth, and strong postnatal recovery is something that you deserve. Remember, our disclaimer, materials, and contents in this podcast are intended as general information only and shouldn’t substitute any medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. I’ll see you soon!