Podcast Episode #102

In this podcast episode we discuss preparing for postpartum recovery and the fourth trimester, with postpartum doula Naomi from Cocoon By Naomi.

Usually pregnancy is broken up into three trimesters. But sometimes the first 12-16 weeks after birth are referred to as the fourth trimester.

Often while pregnant the focus can be on pregnancy itself and preparing for birth. In this episode today with postpartum doula Cocoon by Naomi, she shares ways in which we can help to prepare for postpartum recovery and the fourth trimester.

We discuss:

– Strategies to help get the rest you need during postpartum and the fourth trimester.
– Ways family and friends can help support you during the fourth trimester.
– Mindset shifts to get the most out of motherhood.

Naomi from Cocoon by Naomi really does give some practical advice today to help you prepare for postpartum, that we trust will help. Sit back, relax and enjoy!

Episode Links

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FitNest Mama Website

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Naomi’s website: Cocoon By Naomi
Naomi’s Instagram: 
@cocoonbynaomi
Tales from the fourth trimester podcast

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Preparing for the fourth trimester, with postpartum doula Naomi

Transcription

DISCLAIMER:

Please note that this transcription was completed with computer voice recognition software. Quite often unanticipated grammatical, syntax, homophones, and other interpretive errors are inadvertently transcribed by the computer software. Please disregard these errors. Please excuse any errors that have escaped final proofreading.

INTRODUCTION

If you are pregnant or you’ve recently had a baby, this podcast is for you. I am your host, Kath Baquie. A physiotherapist working in women’s health and a mum of three. Join me each week as we dive into all things pregnancy care, childbirth and postnatal recovery. Helping you have a wonderful pregnancy and after birth experience. And don’t forget to hit subscribe so you don’t miss any episodes.

KATH BAQUIE

Well, hello there, it’s great to have you join me for another episode of the FitNest Mama Podcast. So today, I am lucky enough to be joined with the lovely Naomi who is a postpartum doula. And in this episode, today, we discuss ways to help prepare for the fourth trimester. So, if you are pregnant, or if you’re newly postpartum, or you think you might have future pregnancies and babies ahead, then this episode is for you.

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Naomi is really open and generous with the knowledge she shared in terms of providing some great tips and tricks to help us set ourselves up for postpartum. And I really do feel postpartum is something and I definitely did this myself. Like I think it’s something we all do to a certain degree. But we really focus on pregnancy, we really do focus on birth, and often the postpartum period is a bit of an afterthought. So, this episode is perfect to really help start to tune into some ways that you can help support your postpartum care.

So, in this episode, today, I talked to Naomi about strategies to help get the rest we need. We talk about ideas for handling people in your life and setting those strong boundaries. And we do talk about ways to get that support you need in those early postpartum periods. So, I’m sure you’re going to get a lot of value out of today’s session.

Before we do dive in, I would love to invite you to join us inside FitNest. If reclaiming your pelvic floor, core and strength safely is important to you, then FitNest is for you. So perhaps you found you’re not exercising as much as you’d like to during pregnancy or after birth. Perhaps you’re busy, you’ve lost the motivation. Or perhaps you’re not sure about the best ways to be looking after your body. Perhaps you’ve got pelvic girdle pain or abdominal muscle separation and you’re not sure about the best exercises for you. Or you’d like to get back into running or the gym after having a baby and you want the best kick started possible, then FitNest is for you. So, join us for these convenient, short, easy quality workouts that you can do from the comfort of your home. Whilst your brother sleeps, your toddler runs around, or at the end of a long day at work. So, head to fitnestmama.com for all the details. Right, let’s dive into this episode with Naomi.

Naomi, thank you so much for joining me today on the FitNest Mama Podcast. It is great to have you. So, everyone listening. This is the lovely Naomi Chrisoulakis, you might know as cocoon by Naomi. So, Naomi, could you please give us a little quick rundown who you are or what do you do? What is a postpartum doula?

NAOMI

Sure, thanks for having me. Kath, what do I do? Who am I? These are big questions. I’m a postpartum doula and a mum of two and I live on Darwell country in New South Wales, and you will and go. I’m a postpartum doula, as I said, and that is someone who looks after women and families after they have their babies. So often I say I’m a doula and people go, Oh, great. You do birth? No, I actually do after birth. So, I often am working with women during pregnancy, helping them plan and prepare for the postpartum that they are hoping to get. But I really come into full swing with my support after the baby is born. And when families really need help adjusting to the unit dynamic. They need practical support, then emotional support. And that’s what I do. So, I have a range of services that I offer, but at the heart of it is basically supporting people through nourishing foods, through helping them shift into the mindset that they need for postpartum as they go through matriculants. We’re helping them with sibling dynamics, with boundaries within laws with all of the stuff that happens in postpartum that, really, hopefully they come out of the first three months, the fourth trimester feeling like they have been well rested as much as you can with a newborn. But they’ve been supported that they’ve been really nourished in terms of their nutrition, their postpartum nutrition. And they’re healing really well. Well, that’s basically what I do.

KATH BAQUIE

Basically, but it’s so in a nutshell, but it’s so exciting to chat because, like, if you’re pregnant, don’t tune out, because I feel that this spot we’re talking about today, it is hard to get your head around when you’re pregnant. Like I’ve found this and it’s not until you’re in the thick of it, that you’re like, Oh, I understand why this is so important. Now, maybe that’s just me.

NAOMI

That’s like most people. Like me too.

KATH BAQUIE

That’s right. You hear about the fourth trimester, vaguely in pregnancy, but whether yeah, the focus for me was definitely on the birth. And I can totally understand that and the pregnancy. So, if you are pregnant, stay tuned, because it’s exciting to chat, Naomi. So, you’ve just dived into a lot of stuff there. Let’s dissect what you’ve just talked about. Today, I’d love to chat about three main categories. Maybe for other things I want, I want to really talk about how we can let’s start off. Oh my gosh, it’s such a big topic, but it’s also so narrow. So that’s fantastic. Let’s talk about rest. You know, we all know that postpartum is a time when we might be up all-night feeding. And everyone says sleep when the baby sleeps, but how do you sleep when the baby sleeps, when you might have toddlers, if that a household that’s going to fall apart? So, I’d love to talk through some practical strategies with you as to how to actually overcome those barriers and help with rest.

NAOMI

Yes. Okay, rest. It’s the number one thing that you can do for yourself in postpartum. And as you were saying, it’s really important to think about this stuff in pregnancy, because it’s not that it’s too late once you’re in postpartum, but there’s so much like work that you can do in pregnancy, to set yourself up for a really rested postpartum, whether it’s your first post baby or your fourth baby, it really depends on your circumstances. But I would say if you’re not resting, you can’t get anything else, right? You no matter how well you’re eating, no matter what you’re doing, if you’re not resting, to get about it, and we know that rest is what’s going to help us heal. It’s what’s going on, you know, we’ve talked before about the importance of restaurant pellet for your pelvic floor, it’s also really important for you, your mental health, and just that healing, you know, we know that after birth, we’ve got a wound the size of a dinner plate, where placenta is detached, and the body is amazing. And the uterus, you know, brings that all back together. So, it’s doing that, but we want to give it as much help as we can. And rest is really the way to do that. So, I absolutely take your point about this whole, but how, how can I do? How can I rest, who’s going to do the logic What, like I have got all this shit to do? This is where I say there’s two sides to the coin, you cannot rest if you don’t have support. We aren’t meant to do postpartum and child rearing alone. anthropologists have shown that back, you know, before the Industrial Age, we would have been in villages and tribes. And you know, there’s still plenty of cultures around the world who operate like this, where there would be 16 other adults helping to raise our children 16 other pairs of hands to take that baby and rock them. So, you know, you can do your thing. 16 other pairs of hands, who would take care of the laundry, who would feed you a meal who adore all of that. So, it’s really important to recreate that village, and it’s not going to look like it would have looked like for our great, great, great grandmothers, but we can actually make it happen. If we are willing to ask for help. If we are willing to invest some energy, possibly some money, depending on your circumstances, sometimes you might need to pay for some of that village. That’s okay. So, it’s thinking about like I often say to my clients, I’m coming to take the things off your to do list that are stopping you from resting. I’m coming in to do the laundry to like I always come in and fill people’s fridges with food that I’ve made, and so that they’ve got food for the week, so they don’t have to cook. I do their laundry. I’m often like walking a dog and playing with a toddler. Now I do that I’d pay to do that. But this is this is not rocket science. This is not something that friends, family, neighbours can’t do it, but it has to come from you. And that is where it gets really tricky because we are living in a culture where we are conditioned from birth Basically, to be independent, cope, don’t ask for help, you know, that’s a sign of weakness, don’t be vulnerable, get on with stuff, don’t be a burden. It’s not that it’s all going to fall apart in postpartum. If you try and go it alone, you’re going to have a shitshow. That’s just a really raw, honest truth telling there. So, you need to get the meal train happening, which is like a roster for people. There’s a website called meal train.com, where you can set up or ask a friend to set it up for you, if you feel awkward asking people to do it, ask a friend, please set up a meal train for me go on meal, train.com, set up a calendar, send out an email all of those friends, families, co-workers, neighbours, anyone who’s like, let me know if there’s anything I can do, this is what they can do, they can sign up for a day where they bring you a meal and they drop it on the doorstep. It’s not about visitors, it’s definitely not about entertaining or hosting anyone because that is not a postpartum vibe. And that’s, that’s a really good place to start. If you can find people who can bring you meals, that’s a big thing off the list. If you have a mother-in-law, who maybe isn’t great with like, emotional support, but he’s great at doing laundry. Great. Let’s harness that and get her on the laundry, or outsource it, you know, get one of those pickup services for your laundry, there are so many ways that you can get that support and take those things off your to do list. There are people who can come and play with toddlers, there are neighbours, you know, friends with other kids who can take your toddler out to the park. It doesn’t, you can’t just throw up your hands and be like, oh, I can’t read when the baby rests, you can if you’ve planned for it. I offer postpartum planning sessions where I actually dive in with people to their specific circumstances and come up with those plans for them. Because it is really important to do that in pregnancy, otherwise, you just you do find yourself going, when can I lie down? When can I rest and then you’re sleep deprived, and you’re hormonal, and it’s just not having time.

KATH BAQUIE

And that’s so great that you do sit down on one on one basis, because I can imagine some of what you just suggested then a little part of on me on the inside rent. Oh, I couldn’t ask that. Whereas other stuff that you suggest that I thought, oh, yeah, I’d be comfortable asking that. So then if we can identify what we’re comfortable asking and what we are thinking, oh, you know, killing, I’ll tell you that, then we can do stuff that we’re not as comfortable with, we could brainstorm other ways. For example, if you don’t want to ask someone to set up a meal train, you could think okay, what a certain meal delivery services or what are some really quick if you do your partner can do an online shop and really quick, you know, five-minute meals that they can take care of. So yeah, brainstorming other options, as well.

NAOMI

Absolutely. There’s always, you know, many, many ways to do things. And like I said, my second baby, my first baby, I didn’t know any of this stuff. It was a disaster. My second baby, I filled two fridges, two phrases full of food, and I had a meal train. And I didn’t have to cook for three months, I would just say, I do like to gently challenge people to rethink this conditioning around not being able to ask for help or feeling uncomfortable, I get it. I’m the same. And that’s why I asked a good friend to set up a meal train for me. So, there’s always little ways around it. But I tell people I know like I get it; it is uncomfortable. But how to think about if you had a good friend who said to you, do you think he could drop a meal on my doorstep? Like once? Like, personally, I’d be like, of course. And thank you so much for asking me because now I feel needed. And I love to help, and I want to help, and I want to do something that’s actually useful, rather than buying you another cute onesie that your baby will wear twice and shit all over, you know, and like, let’s actually do something that’s useful for families. And that’s supportive of getting there. So, I get it, there is a lot of like inner work that needs to happen. And part of that is asking for support and setting boundaries. It’s it’s this is not easy stuff that we’re talking about. This is not this is why and that is why you got to start in pregnancy.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, you’re right. And what you just said, I think totally hit the nail on the head in terms of you do have to challenge your inner beliefs and what you’ve grown up with. And even now, as a school Mum, I still hate asking other mums to perhaps pick up my kids. Like I always feel I need to reciprocate it and that’s fine. I’m very happy to reciprocate it but I’ll never just directly say, could you do such and such for me. I’ll always say, hey, if I pick up your kid on Friday, do you mind picking up my kid on Wednesday so maybe I need to come and have a session with you Naomi.

NAOMI

I really love the work of Dr. Sophie Brock who really unpacks beautifully the this concept of patriarchal motherhood that we’re in and that we are so conditioned into thinking about the good mother, what does the good mother do the good that doesn’t have to ask for help because she’s been has shipped together. But actually, that’s just a need. That is a total myth, we are not meant to do this in isolation at all. And that like we’ve got one in one in five women have a baby who ended up with postpartum anxiety or depression. Like, I wonder why. We’re not meant to do this alone.

KATH BAQUIE

100%. There we go. I’m sure everyone listening today has some food for thought.

NAOMI

A little bit of tough, a little bit of tough love there. But that’s honestly, that’s probably the biggest thing that you can do for rest is find ways to get that support. And of course, it is a lot of stuff that you can do ahead of time. Like I said, filling your freezer with nourishing postpartum food is a huge one, if you don’t have to think about what you’re cooking for that night. That takes a big mental load off your mind. And even like investing in a slow cooker, I think is like so important for new parents, so that you’re, you know, if your partner’s going back to work, if you’re in that setup, partner can pop on the cycle, or have a morning partner can get into the habit of putting a load of laundry on in the morning, so that you really are sharing that load. And it’s not just their, you know, wrapped off to the office for the day. And you’re going well, great. How do I get anything done when I’ve got a cluster feeding baby on me that, you know, you actually kind of have to have the conversations and think up some systems that work for your, you know, house and your world and, and you know, what’s important to you. Like, for me, I hate seeing our little compost bucket on the kitchen sink? Overflow, I can’t bear it. So, I remember saying to my partner, like, just please make sure that’s done in the morning. So, I don’t have to have that driving me nuts. You know, for some people, it’s the overflowing laundry basket. But yeah, and things like pets, and you know, you can get people like get the dog walker and pay for it if you need to or ask the kid up the road to start walking your dog for five bucks or whatever, you know, there’s always a way.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah. And you’re right, if we can start this in pregnancy, which is actually really good for your body during pregnancy to be not hauling loads of wet washing and laundry. And so if we can start to implement just a few of these changes during pregnancy, it can help also with that transition to postpartum.

NAOMI

Yeah. And I think it’s a mindset thing, too. It’s like in pregnancy, start asking for help, because it is uncomfortable to say everyone start asking for help and start saying no to stuff too. That’s the other thing that saying, no, when you’re asked to do something, or to go somewhere that doesn’t, you don’t want to do it’s a really important muscle to start working on in pregnancy so that when it comes to postpartum, you’re, you’re at least had some practice in the setting of boundaries. And so, practicing the asking for help so that you don’t get all in your head. I mean, you still bill, but hopefully, because you’ve had that practice, even just, you know, starting to ask neighbours like, would you mind like, I had neighbours who I asked to just take the bins out for us, which is something that’s quite easy for people should do. They’re happy to do it. But I started to ask them in pregnancy means that then hopefully they keep it going and postpartum.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, opening up those lines of communication. So, you talked about boundary setting. Let’s dive into that one next. Because you can. That’s one that I think and maybe this is just myself and a bit of a counselling session. But that’s one that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable with too.

NAOMI

Me too. Boundaries are really hard for most people. And I think yeah, asking for support and setting healthy boundaries is like two sides of the same coin. It’s really hard. And I still struggle with this. I’m not coming from a place of I’ve got it all right. And this is how you do it. I struggle big time as well because I am a recovering people pleaser recovering nice girl. And I just say postpartum is not the time to be letting people walk all over you. So have a little thing. I mean, the biggest thing I think in terms of boundaries is who do you want showing up in your, you know, not to not to get too woowoo but really sacred postpartum time. It is a very special moment, and it’s over and you know, a heartbeat. So, who do you want in that space? Do you want cords of family coming and sitting for hours and hours and expecting you to make sandwiches and tea for them? Do you want you know you aren’t who triggers the hell out of you coming and telling you you should be doing things differently with your baby? No. We need to have a think about who who feels supportive to you, who is who listens without fixing. You know, who are those people, and a good rule of thumb is like who are you comfortable with being topless in front of because chances are if you’re breastfeeding, you’re going to be topless. A lot of the time and if you’re doing postpartum, right for the first few weeks, you should be spending a hell of a lot of time in bed, or like lying prone. So, you know, who are you comfortable doing that around. That’s a pretty good litmus test.

KATH BAQUIE

Question for you, Naomi. You’ve just talked about getting that village around you. And you know, 16 other adults in the tribe sort of thing. But now we’re talking about limiting people. Yep, it’s a really fine balance, right? Because some of these people that you might be limiting, might have actually not been expecting sandwiches and tea, they might have actually been wanting to help. So, how?

NAOMI

That’s how you, that’s where you have to use your discernment. And you also have to set expectations in pregnancy. So, for example, I help clients often, like drafting an email, in pregnancy, a group email that goes out, setting the expectations out, saying things like, you know, we’re so excited for you to meet, you know, we’re so excited to meet the baby, we’re so excited to introduce the baby to our community, we have decided that while we settle into life with a newborn, we won’t be having visitors outside our immediate family for the first two weeks, or whatever it is that they decide, we’ll let you know when we’re ready. And we won’t be really in the mood for we’re probably you know, in our sleep deprived state won’t be really in the mood for hosting. But we would be so grateful if you come in at mealtime, if you bring some food along with you, that would be amazing. If you fancy helping out while you’re here, as you know, it’s life is tricky with a newborn, we would love it, if you could exercise it, like put on a load of voluntary do the dishes that are in the sink, whatever it is, like, take the dog to the grass fed whatever. So, it’s actually setting up the expectation that you’re not there to just hold a baby, you’re there to support the family. So, you want people in your space who are going to be willing to do that. And you don’t want the people in your space, who are going to sit there for four hours and just hold the baby while you’re sore and bleeding and feeling awkward about feeding and all of those things.

So, you have to use your own discernment in who those people are. But you also need to set up the expectation with clear communication. There’s no point in just wishing that these things will happen. And hoping that people will turn up for you in the way that you need to you need to know how you need to be shown up for just part of what we’re talking about today. And they need to tell them in like a, you know, non-demanding, but like this is what would be actually really helpful because people genuinely want to help want to be there for you want to support you. But our culture has forgotten how to support postpartum families. They think that rocking up with a lasagna and holding the baby for four hours is the thing to be done. That’s just not the best thing to do. And I think if you can kind of clearly communicate with people, most people are really happy to, to step up. And do that. And you just have to be you have to kind of this is the inner work of going well, Who is it? Who is that person? For me? Who is a great listener? Great. I want them in my space. Who is it that is maybe a tricky personality, but he’s really like great at like helping out with doing some cooking? Well, great, I’ll have them in my space, but I will specifically ask them, I will harness the good things. And I will set a boundary for the bad stuff. So if you know, for example, partners can play a really important role here of not allowing visitors to stay for longer than 45 minutes an hour. Like that should be tops that visitor are staying and I’m not first two weeks, I think visitors should be absolutely minimal. And meals dropped on the doorstep are the most appropriate form of support. Unless you’ve got someone who is that person who you are happy to be topless in front of any is a great listener. And you you know are happy to cry in front of and you’re really in that incredibly raw Tinder. first few weeks those the only people in your space. Other people I know it’s like this feeling of all I’m obliged to let my you know, father in law meet the baby. Yes, that’s fine. But can you just have a short visit? Can they also, you know, just help out with something while they’re there. There’s a Dr. Oscar Cerelac who wrote the post oil depletion cure. His motto, which I think is fantastic is no visitors only staff. So we’ve got to flip this idea of oh, we’re hosting visitors like I was up making tea for people with my first baby doing laundry while they held my baby. The stupidest stuff that now I’m like, Why did I do that? I know why? Because that’s what we’ve been conditioned to kind of do. But that is it’s a whole other game in postpartum. This is not this is not normal life. This is a moment in time where you need to be supported and you deserve to be supported. And that is really where a lot of mindset work needs to come into play.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, yeah, love all that and I do just want to like for anyone listening, that I’m sure we’re all of us thinking, oh, I didn’t do that if I could probably have already had a baby or if you’re about to have your first baby, perhaps, like we all grow and learn and, you know, things, we might plan for all this. But also, let’s not be too hard on ourselves if, like what you just said, why did I do that? Like, you know, we did that, because that’s what we were equipped with first time round, you learned from that you changed at second time round. So, I think we’ve also got to have that grace within ourselves that absolutely, we will get things wrong. And we, we will do things differently next time. So that’s part of it, too.

NAOMI

Absolutely. Like when you know, better, you do better. What you don’t know. You don’t know. Yeah, that’s, that’s all it is. And like I said, this culture is forgotten about what postpartum really is like, and what we really need. And it’s not spoken about enough. And so, people aren’t as aware. But I think that…

KATH BAQUIE

And that’s why it’s great to have you in the corner as sort of the cheerleader and just, you know, opening up these thoughts and ideas. Oh, yeah, maybe I could ask this. Or maybe I could suggest this to the next visitor. So, having a support person like yourself, I can see the benefit? Because it might put you out, like as you said, you don’t know what you don’t know.

NAOMI

Yeah, and I think a lot of people, you know, it’s easier often for people either, they genuinely don’t have the support or the people. So there are people who it’s just too hard to ask for that support. So to have someone who they’re paying to come in and support them in a way that I know is really nourishing for them. And if they’re not getting that from elsewhere, then I can at least be a part of that. So, yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, it’s important, isn’t it? Okay, can we talk through, because I did have a little sneak peek of your beautiful website before we jumped in. And you talk about how you help to, you help with the mindset shifts to get the most out of motherhood. So we’ve talked about risks, we’ve talked about boundaries. But I’d love to just have a little chat about those mindset shifts that you spoke about. It’s a beautiful thing to consider. Because again, you don’t know what you don’t know. So yeah.

NAOMI

And I think, you know, there’s a lot of commonalities in the motherhood experience, but everyone’s very different. So, I’m going to speak in really general terms, but maybe some of it doesn’t resonate. Some of it does. I think in early motherhood, particularly if it’s your first baby, there’s a lot of natural kind of you know, wanting to get it right. And worry that you know, am I getting it right? Is this is my baby, okay? Am I okay? Should I be doing this? Should my baby be doing that, which I think can quite easily tip over into anxiety and suck out the joy of mothering, if we let it. So I think there’s, you know, there’s a normal level. And I think everyone goes through that. And then there’s, if we get too, sucked into the noise, particularly around baby sleep, around feeding around routines around all these things, if we get too sucked in and start going, Oh, should I be doing this? But I read this this way, how do I do but then they said this, it, it takes away from our, from learning about our intuition. And I say learning about our intuition, because I think it’s quite hard to tap into first thing, this it’s a huge, huge, huge, massive transition, and huge learning curve. And to go, well just trust your intuition, I think is hard, because you don’t really know what your intuition is. But the more you’re hearing from outside, the less you’re able to tune into what feels right for you. And what’s working for you and your baby. And that’s very individual.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah. You know, Naomi, I feel like you’re talking to me nine years ago with my first. Like how do you know?

NAOMI

That was me. That was me. I had, you know, I had a really unsettled baby. I love a routine. I loved pre baby. I was like, right I study hard I put in the hard yards I put in the hours, and I get shit done. Well, my little firecracker of a baby decided to come along and teach me, no, mama. That’s not how things work anymore. And inviting me into this whole new phase of personal growth really, to learn that I’m not in control. She is in control. And I learned that the hard way by a having presale anxiety, be just desperately searching for answers that why my baby wouldn’t sleep for more than 45 minutes on me why she wanted to cry sleep, but oh my god, that’s dangerous. No, no. Can’t do that. Why she was breastfeeding for an hour which is not that dramatic. You know, like, she didn’t have any of the things that I thought a friend told me at the time. Shoulds are a red flag. And I really, truly believe that. So, I eventually found my way. And I believe that everyone will.

KATH BAQUIE

That’s right. And that’s part of the learning process. Because I remember because, you know, we all start motherhood, not having most of us start motherhood, not having any idea. And I had read, one of the only books I’d read was, I won’t say the name, but it’s really popular sleep book, you know, about nine years ago.

NAOMI

I probably know the one I like to burn if I ever say it.

KATH BAQUIE

And my mother-in-law said to me, anyone read that book, the best thing they can do is take it to the backyard and bury it as deep as possible. But I remember being really like this book to me was my lifeline. Right? Like I felt, I felt if I didn’t have that book, I knew it was making me anxious. Plus, like, five don’t have this book. What do I watch? I don’t know what to do. So, I need this book, even though everyone’s telling me this book is terrible. But I think it’s brilliant. Because it’s my lifeline. So yeah.

NAOMI

Yeah, it’s tricky. And I know I know what you’re talking about. And there’s sadly, it’s not the only kind of program book, whatever out there that encourages people to be really rigid, I would say if you’ve ever been told by anyone, maternal child, health nurse, midwife, book, influencer, whatever, to do things this way. And this is how this is the time that this is the rigid thing. And you should be doing this, and the baby should be doing, this is the routine or you should always swaddle your baby, or you should know, because babies are not robots, the actual gift of motherhood, if you don’t already have it is learning how to be flexible. Because not only are babies are different, but they don’t change on such a rapid rate. You can have a baby who one week is doing things, you know, one way and then the next week, they’ve gone through a developmental leap, they’re teething, they’ve been see whatever, they change things up.

So, to try and stick with a rigid plan for me, like I tried to I tried to do this, I bought a went out when I was I think I was about two weeks postpartum or when I bought a book, not that book, but our book, which was, yeah, and I thought it was meant to be more gentle and whatever. It wasn’t hardcore. But even just trying to do this night-time routine of it was like, breast bath breast bed, even just like just that as a night-time rhythm almost destroyed my Saturday because my child just wouldn’t have Babbage, she just screamed the house down. She didn’t want to do that. That was not the way she did things. I just encourage people to not listen to any of those kinds of books. But to look at the evidence around how babies are built, you know, we can’t fight biology, and we can’t fight nature. And unfortunately, whether it because we are sad, unfortunately, because we’re in a society where we like to teach babies to be independent. Babies like to be close to their mothers until babies are four months old. It is a fact that they don’t know that they’re a separate entity to their mother. So, they need to hear a heartbeat and feel the closest and the warmth. We know that being next to our baby, regulates their heartbeat, regulates their breathing regulates the temperature, this is how we’re built. We are a mother, baby dyad and Mama toto they call it we have this symbiotic relationship where like no other baby being on us is helpful to us. It increases our oxytocin, which keeps our mood stable, which helps our milk supply which helps our wounds heal. Like it’s just, it makes sense to follow the biology and not to follow the books. Particularly, yeah, I could talk for hours.

KATH BAQUIE

So, for anyone’s listening, that’s thinking, okay, no books, follows biology. What next steps would you suggest? Are there any great podcasts you recommend? Or any great like how do we follow the biology?

NAOMI

How do we learn?

KATH BAQUIE

How do we learn?

NAOMI

Yeah, well, there’s a fantastic book that I love called the first 40 days, which is a great guide and cookbook for the first 40 days and is graded it kind of introducing these concepts. The possums program is a sort of sleep support. That’s based on neuro development evidence and principles. So I don’t think you even need to do that. But if you’re seeking some kind of, you know, advice, and I get it like you have I was also like, oh, I need to know like, you need some guidance. I have a podcast you and I’ve got a few great episodes on there around sleep with Dr. Howard Chilton actually is his amazing he’s an Australian paediatrician. He’s got a book called your cherished baby. which is really recommend that book. It’s amazing. And yeah, he was on my podcast for a fantastic episode. Pinkie McKay, I love. Yeah, there’s some great, there’s some great people out there. Yeah. So, there is that information there. It’s just a matter of finding it and also just shutting out the noise. Like if you’re following to sleep stuff that’s making you stress just, I know it’s hard, but just follow, put the book down and try to get that baby’s skin to skin and look at them, listen to them watch their cues. Are they hungry? Feed them. You know, there’s no way that 1000 years ago, there were babies who were you know, we’re watching the clock in terms of, oh, well, I can only see them every three hours. That’s not actual normal newborn behaviour. It’s important just to kind of get an understanding of that normal, normal, normal behaviour. That’s something that I do in the planning sessions, as well as like we talked about sleep, we talk about feeding, we talk about all of that unsettled behaviour that is really hard to deal with. If you don’t know what’s coming, if you know what’s coming, and you’ve got some strategies under your belt. That is how you kind of deal with it.

KATH BAQUIE

Well, Naomi, we could keep talking all day and we only go through half of what I was hoping to, but we will wrap it up there. You have been really generous with the information you’ve provided us today. How do people find you?

NAOMI

You can find me on Instagram, @cocoonbynaomi which is c-o-c-o-o-n-b-y-n-a-o-m-i or cocoonby naomi.com, which is my website where you can book in a planning session or talk to me about support all the other things.

KATH BAQUIE

Or the podcast, Cocoon by Naomi.

NAOMI

It’s called Tales from the fortress. Yeah, but yeah, you will probably find it if you just search that.

KATH BAQUIE

Yes.

Thank you so much, Naomi. I really appreciate the chat today. I’ll put the links in the show notes, ladies of some of the resources that Naomi mentioned. So, thank you, Naomi. Well catch you soon.

NAOMI

Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.

KATH BAQUIE

Thanks for listening to the FitNest Mama Podcast brought to you by the FitNest Mama Freebies found at www.fitnestmama.com/free. So please take a few seconds to leave a review, subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. And be sure to take a screenshot of this podcast, upload it to your social media and tag me, @fitnestmama so I can give you a shout out too. Until next time. Remember, an active pregnancy, confident childbirth, and strong postnatal recovery is something that you deserve. Remember our disclaimer, materials and contents in this podcast are intended as general information only and shouldn’t substitute any medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. I’ll see you soon!

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