Newborn sleep tips with Melbourne Baby Sleep Consultant Jazz

Sleep is a big topic. It’s one that I think as soon as your parent everyone’s asking, how’s the baby sleeping? Are they sleeping through the night and I know from personal experience, it can also be an area that’s very much an unknown. It can be, everyone who is sleep deprived knows how challenging it can be. So, in this episode today, it’s so great to chat to Jazz because we talk about newborns sleep. Jazz gives some great tips to help your newborn get to sleep. The environment and sleep environment. Talk about creating and I say this in air quotation marks “bad habits” and in terms of rocking and feeding to sleep. So, we discuss all the things it’s a relatively short episode, but it is value packed. And I wish I had listened to this episode before the birth of my first baby, which was a long time ago now before podcasts were even around. So do stick around because I trust you are going to get a lot of value from today’s episode, especially if you’re pregnant and you’re about to have a baby or you have a baby in those first three months.

First of all, though, I am super excited to invite you to join FitNest Mama. So, if you’ve found you’re not exercising as much as you’d like to during pregnancy and post pregnancy, perhaps you’re busy or you’ve lost motivation to exercise, or you’re not sure how to best be looking after your body. Or you’ve got pelvic girdle pain and abdominal muscle separation and you’re not sure about the best exercises for you. Or perhaps you want to get back into running after birth and you want the best Kickstarter possible, then FitNest Mama is for you. Join us for these convenient short, easy workouts that you can do from the comfort of your home whilst your baby sleeps, whilst your toddler is running around causing havoc, or at the end of a long day at work. So simply head to fitnestmama.com and the link is also in the show notes. Alright. Let’s get into this episode.

Jazz, thank you so much for joining me today on the FitNest Mama Podcast.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

KATH BAQUIE

So, it’s so exciting to chat because baby sleep is huge. And I remember it distinctly being stressful, especially for first baby. But then you think you’ve got it all sorted and they change, and they grow and something new happens. And then you have a second baby and they’re totally different. And something changes again. So, it’s one of those ever evolving situations. So, we are going to try to condense this into the first zero to three months because I know it’s a massive topic that we could talk about, forever.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Or ever.

KATH BAQUIE

So, to start off with, Jazz, could you please quickly introduce yourself and what brought you to become a baby sleep consultant?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, so my name is Jazz. I’m based on the Mornington Peninsula just outside of Melbourne. My background is in midwifery and maternal and child health nursing and general nursing. So quite a medical background and developed a real passion and love for baby sleep and helping parents with it through my maternal and child health roles. So, I did some extra study to become a sleep consultant and now I run my own business and have done for a couple years and I just love it. I love being able to help parents in the way that they need with no kind of restrictions, or you know, though things to think about in terms of policy. I just love that giving parents what they need in the moment.

KATH BAQUIE

And maternal child health nurses, they’re fantastic but they’ve also only got a small amount of time. So, and they have to do everything in the appointment like check the baby.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

It’s great you’ve got that background.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, it is. And I sort of got that experience. And I still work casually as a midwife, and I just adore working as a midwife. But yeah, I definitely have found my passion working with parents on sleep. And I support families with babies from birth right through to five years. So very different ends of the range working with newborns, right through to toddlers and older kids, which I love the variety.

KATH BAQUIE

Amazing. So, I will link all your details in the show notes. But let’s get started at the start. So, let’s say a mum or family have a newborn baby. When it comes to sleep, what where do we start?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, so this is actually a big reason why I went and studied this because I just realized that families are having their bub’s in hospital. And we were sending them home with very little information on sleep and where to start. And something as basic as just understanding roughly how long your baby would be awake for before you offer them another sleep or offer them a nap is a really good place to start. And it sounds so basic. And you would have heard that before. I’m sure if you’re a parent, that awake times, just rough, rough sort of awake windows I like to talk about. And it is just really helpful so that we can prevent that over tiredness and just make settling a lot easier. So, you know, I have the link here to a table with the rough times. But for a newborn, a fresh newborn in the first few weeks, that’s, you know, very short 45 to 60 minutes of awake time. Ideally, they’d be back asleep by an hour of awake time. So, it’s really short, by the time you offer a feed, have a bit of a cuddle, do a nappy change or two, if there’s been a few bowel motions in that hour. And then back to sleep again, it goes very quickly. So yeah, definitely awake times is where I’d be starting.

And then moving on to your sleeping environment, I’d be looking at making sure that you’re not putting too much emphasis on your baby sleeping in their cot or in their bassinet in that newborn phase. Just go with the path of least resistance. Our little ones are unpredictable, you know, by nature. And sometimes they really struggle to settle in that court. So, I think focusing on you know, maybe a carrier walk or pram nap or something like that, you know, doing a few of those in the day is totally fine. I think, you know, something I see a lot is parents really struggling with feeling like they have to offer naps in courts and putting a lot of pressure on and you just don’t need to do that. It’s totally fine to offer some assisted naps, especially, you know, our little ones are so used to being you know, in our tummys. Right against our heartbeat and feeling our emotion and our nice warm skin. And, you know, it’s really obvious that that’s what they love in that in that newborn phase. So, enjoy that. You know, contact naps, pram naps are so fine. And just yeah, not putting too much pressure on yourself.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, I love the fact that you say that. Because I distinctly remember feeling like, I had to get them to sleep in the cot, especially my first baby. And I totally remember that very much a self-assigned pressure. I don’t feel like anyone’s yeah, I can’t, no one applied the pressure to me, but I applied it to myself, I felt. So, that’s really nice to hear you say that.

JAZZ KOSTOV

I think as well, you know, I’m on Instagram and I share information. And I know, there’s so many other sources of information online. And I think sometimes, maybe parents see that, you know, we were looking at routine and self-settling and all of these things. But I kind of think that that’s also relevant for newborns. And it’s not, you know, newborns take time to actually figure out what’s day, what’s night, you know, their circadian rhythms, which is their concept of day and night, but doesn’t actually become fully established and set until you know, closer to that eight to 10 weeks of age. And that’s when you start to see babies really wake up be a lot more wakeful, sometimes a little bit more challenging to settle. So, you know, probably a really good tip for parents with fresh, fresh newborns, from about three weeks of age, I do recommend when you’re home for nap time offering a really dark room for sleep, just to start, you know, helping their natural body systems understand that that’s nap time. Reducing stimulation is a huge one, obviously. If the rooms light they can see everything. So, if they fall asleep, and then half an hour they wake up, and they look around the room, it’s, nice and bright, they’re just a lot more likely to be fully awake at that point and not want to go back to sleep. Which makes sense. You think about, you know, when you have a nap during the day, you’re probably going to turn the lights off and draw the blind. It’s quite basic.

KATH BAQUIE

And even now my four year old, I swear, as soon as there is a sliver of light in that blind, 5 o’clock, she’s up. No holding her back.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, yeah. And, like, my friends, and my family laughed at me about how focused I am on a dark room. But it is really important. It’s always that it really does help them sleep a lot better. That doesn’t mean that your baby will only sleep in a dark room. You know, obviously, when you’re out doing a carrier walk or a car nap or pram nap, that it’s going to be lighter than what it would be at home. And that’s totally fine. Because when you’re having a nap in those environments, you’ve got the gift of motion, which is really listening. Yeah, that audible white noise. I’m a huge fan of that, too. You know, you can either play that on your phone or just buy a cheap portable device to use.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, I mean, even the white noise maybe it’s not called white noise. But you know, the engine running and the car, just the noises and the car, the pram, the wheels, and like noisy wheels. Like that’s all just, yeah, the movement. Yeah, noise.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, even just your rhythmic steps on the footpath. You know, all that kind of stuff is, is really relaxing for them at sleep time.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah.

JAZZ KOSTOV

So, I think they’re the main things I’d talk about. The biggest thing is just having realistic expectations. You know, as I said, newborns are unpredictable by nature. And I think if you have this perception or in your head, you’re like, you know, I want them to have all their, their naps in their cot. And they’re going to be two-hour naps. And, you know, setting that boss so high can really be challenging the parents when babies don’t settle as they thought they would, or it just looks quite different to how they thought. So just normalizing that, I think, which is a really good place to start.

KATH BAQUIE

So I know we weren’t going to talk about older babies, as such, but if you’re saying, you know, let them sleep anywhere, just in the first three months, like just take the pressure off yourself, at what stage would you say, Okay, this is becoming something we need to focus on. And maybe they do need to have a designated spot to sleep, like, when do you? When does that switch happen?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, but the nitty gritty stuff. So, you know, it really depends on your family’s priorities. For me, with my little girl, like, it was very important to me that she, you know, she got used to sleeping in her cot early on, I just, that was something I wasn’t a huge one for doing lots of contact naps. And, you know, I was working when she was pretty young. So, I just wanted that to have a bit of flexibility. So, the me like I started offering those naps in the cot from day one, we had some contact naps in there. And I just found that she got a lot more use to that, you know, in the early days because of that reason. But if you know, not all babies like to sleep in there cot as much. So even just starting with one nap a day, often a nap in the middle of the day. And offering that in their cot or bassinet is a really good place to start. So, the other ones, you know, head out for your pram walk or have a contact nap on the couch or something nice like that. And just focus on one a day. And once your baby’s starting to get the hang of that, then you could offer another one and build up from there.

Around, you know, around four months, o, sort of 15-16 weeks onwards, is when you could start really looking at some self-settling skills. So, people might have heard it called sleep training, I really am not a huge fan of that term. But it’s more having a bit of a plan and a bit of a range of settling methods you can look at to actually support your baby to feel comfortable with being in their cot awake and actually falling to sleep more independently. And there’s so many ways to do that. And you know, it doesn’t have to involve them just screaming for prolonged periods of time because no one wants to leave their baby to cry for long periods of time. But yeah, around four months is when you could really focus on the self-settling skills getting a more of a set day routine happening. So yeah, the clients I work with one to one that’s from four months is when I start with that kind of support for that reason. And that’s just because their body systems have matured, those circadian rhythms are really kind of settled in. And yeah, the other thing that happens around four months is their sleep cycles mature, so they start to wake more fully at the end of the sleep cycle, which is about 45 minutes long. So that’s a naturally quite a good time when they’re waking more fully in between sleep cycles, their sleep cycles are mature, to actually work on supporting them to self-settle so they can link them together and have a longer nap.

KATH BAQUIE

That’s when the cot napping starts.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, it’s a very common time. And people might have heard it for that four months sleep regression. It’s really, it’s their sleep can change. But it’s actually a developmental progression. So, it’s a normal developmental change and maturation of sleep cycles. That’s actually what’s happening. We often just hear about the negatives of it, but it’s really exciting. It’s such a, it’s an exciting time, because they they’re moving towards potentially being able to sleep more independently. If that’s a goal that parents have. It’s a really good time to start working towards that.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, brilliant. So good to have that timeframe in the mind. Okay, so we’ve talked about knowing about wake time, we talked about the dark room. What was the next thing we talked about? We went on a bit of a tangent, I know. That’s all good stuff, though.

JAZZ KOSTOV

We talked about sort of when, when you could look at settling into a routine, when you can work on sort of self-settling skills. Because I do I hear a lot of newborn parents wanting their baby to be able to self-settle in that first three months, and it’s, you know, some babies will some babies will seemingly just go to sleep very easily. But it’s just it’s a lot more realistic to start working on it closer to that four month mark.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, that’s great to know.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Okay. So, in terms of rocking and feeding to sleep, like you mentioned that, for 6-12 weeks, this is exactly what they need. Would it be that four-month mark, when you might try those self-settling, strategies you talked about?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah. So, all of those kinds of things you just mentioned, so rocking, to sleep, feeding, to sleep, all of those things, you might have heard them called sleep association. So that’s literally just it’s something that your baby associates with going to sleep. And they’re not bad habits, they’re not negative, we hear so much about, you know, this negative kind of spin on it. And it’s just not, they’re not bad habits. If those things are working for you and your family, that is totally fine. But you know, like, quite commonly the families I work with, they get to a point where, you know, maybe that’s not working so well for them anymore. Maybe their babies just really not settling very well with that anymore. And they’re feeling really stuck about what to do next. So yeah, moving away from actually just did a post on it yesterday, I think comparing parent dependent sleep associations with non-parent dependency associations.

KATH BAQUIE

Can you tell us a few of those?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah. So, parent dependent is basically something that your baby needs from you to get to sleep. So rocking, feeding, co sleeping, those kinds of things, even replacing a dummy if they’re not independent with replacing that themselves. And then nonparent dependent is things like being in their sleeping bag, a dark room, white noise, playing a dummy, if they’re independent with using that a comforter, if so, from seven months, you can introduce a comforter. Those kinds of things, they don’t need you to come in and actually do for them, obviously, you need to put them in their sleeping bag and darken the room. But once that’s all set up, they’re independent with those things, and they become really positive things associated with sleep. And when they wake after a sleep cycle, those things will all be present. And it means their sleep environment is a lot more familiar.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, that’s great. I distinctly remember breastfeeding to sleep. And I remember saying to my mum, I don’t know how are we going to ever get her to sleep? Like, I’m going to have to breastfeed her for the rest of life? Yeah, just remember that distinct moment of thinking, what else can I do?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, how do I how do I change this? So many parents that contact me, they’re like, you haven’t met my baby, like, you know, you haven’t met one like this, you know? You know, it doesn’t matter what, where you’re at, or what you’re doing to get them to sleep. Whether you’re co sleeping and feeding them 15 times a night, you know, you can always make changes, and support them to learn to settle in a different way as impossible as it seems in that moment. You know, change is always possible.

KATH BAQUIE

Okay. That’s good. So good to know. Oh, my gosh, we could talk forever couldn’t wait. I’ve got another question for you. It’s on that, because we were talking about, you know how, as a newborn, it’s, it’s totally good to cuddle them to sleep and hold them and all the rest. What happens when we get on newborn to sleep? So, I’m not talking about a four month old, but our newborn to sleep and then as soon as we go to put them in the cot or the bassinet, yeah, wake up?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, this is a really common question that I get. And basically, what’s happening there is if you’re getting fully assisting your baby to sleep in your arms, and that newborn phase, as I said, that’s totally fine. But what I’d suggest is wait until you’re fairly certain they’ve been asleep for a good 10 or 15 minutes before you transfer them to their cot or bassinet. The reason for that is it takes them about 15 to 20 minutes to get into a deeper phase of sleep. So, what’s happening, if you’re getting them to sleep, they’ve been asleep for maybe five minutes, and you transfer them and they wake, it’s probably because they just weren’t quite properly asleep yet. There are other things you can do to make for an easier transfer to the cot, you know, putting their legs and their bottom onto the mattress first, and then slowly layering, laying them down, rather than putting them down sort of just, you know, with the whole body touching the mattress first or their head first.

KATH BAQUIE

Oh, I like that tip.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, it’s cool. It works well. And that’s all to do with their newborn responses and that they’re sort of inbuilt reflexes. So that startle reflex that that you would have seen them do. Obviously, they’re all swaddled, and they can’t start all but they still get that feeling of, you know, positions changed.

KATH BAQUIE

A bit more of a jolt if you put them all down together. So, can I just clarify what you said? You sort of bend them at the hips a little bit and put their bottom down first. Feet down.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Second, and then they hit upper body.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah. So just literally kind of like sitting them a little bit.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah.

JAZZ KOSTOV

And then laying down slowly. Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

That’s a great tip. I didn’t know that one.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, it works well. So, if you combine that with just waiting until you’re fairly certain they’ve been asleep for 10 or 15 minutes, and then and then transfer, it works well. The other thing I’d suggest is when you’re transferring to the bassinet or cot, and you’ve done the sit down and the in bed, just keep a little bit of gentle pressure with your hands on the top half of the body and the lower half just for a minute or two. And then slowly take your hands away. Because it just helps kind of avoid that startle reflex, because you’ve got that pressure there, they’re not going to feel that they’ve kind of, they won’t notice that they’ve moved out of your arms as much, if that makes sense. You kind of trick them into not realizing.

KATH BAQUIE

It’s just a slower transition, isn’t it? Yeah, exactly. And I do just want to bring up this is the pelvic floor physio and me like, I know as mums and women in this day and age, I’m just going to say I don’t think we’ve ever been so busy as we are now and taking on more roles and responsibilities and all the rest. And that first 6-12 weeks, If you’ve got your baby sleeping on you, and you’re stuck there for the whole day, not whole day, the whole sleep.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Like from a pelvic floor perspective and from a body healing perspective, post birth, that’s perfect. You know, you’re getting almost forced rest. So don’t feel guilty because you’re actually helping to enhance your body’s recovery. By resting when your baby’s sleeping.

JAZZ KOSTOV

I’m a huge advocate for it and the same like yes to the contact naps, because you can lay down and actually rest and just put on some Netflix or whatever, and just chill out and yeah, it’s forced rest. And the other thing I like about, you know, your pram walks and car and stuff like that is that it gets you out of the house, you know, I used to head out, go get a coffee, you know, go for a gentle walk. And you know, it just made me feel so much better. So that’s something really common that families I work with they want to feel confident to get out of the house. Yeah. So even with babies that are older, I suggest doing the first snap, assisted adjust. I think it’s an awesome thing to start the day like that.

KATH BAQUIE

Okay, this is the physio and me talking again. I know this is not real life. But that’s amazing. First snap, walk you get your exercise in and done for the day. Second nap…

JAZZ KOSTOV

Obviously… sorry to interrupt. Obviously, you’re still recovering, you might not feel you can walk for an hour, because I know…

KATH BAQUIE

Oh, totally.

JAZZ KOSTOV

…I had a seemingly like uncomplicated birth and I was just it was it was sore for a few weeks. And I walk so short.

KATH BAQUIE

Oh, gosh. Yes. Yeah, totally. And that is a very valid point. Because if anyone’s been listening to me for a while, they’ll know in the first six weeks I recommend, I’m really conservative because I think recovery is so important. Five minutes of walking that first week. 10 minutes of walking for that second week. You could still do short bursts but 10 minutes, then go have a little lay down rest whatever. Then 15 minutes third week, 20 minutes, fourth week, 25 minutes fifth week. So, by the time you get up to six weeks, that’s 30 minutes. That’s a decent amount of time. Because any longer you’ve just got that the gravitational forces on your already stretched and weakened pelvic floor. And we just want to avoid any issues with incontinence and prolapse if we can and just help to enhance recovery.

JAZZ KOSTOV

The other thing that contact naps are so good for is bonding and just connection, you know, even just having your baby on you and soaking up their smell and just their warm little body. We had Hazel in the middle of winter, and I loved it. Like, even if she wasn’t on me just having it in a bassinet or in front of the fire. I remember I watched like all the Harry Potter’s, and I just loved it.

KATH BAQUIE

It’s bringing back so many memories. I’m getting cocky again. Can I have my fourth baby?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Oh, do it!

KATH BAQUIE

Oh my god. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. That’s right. That’s why those sleep times that enforced rest so important. Yeah. Cool. Okay. We’ve talked about a lot of things. So, we’ve really tried to hone in on those first six weeks. Is there anything that we, for six to 12 weeks, is there anything we haven’t mentioned that you wanted to talk about?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, what I’ll do actually I have a blog post on my top 10 newborn tips, I can give you a link to that to share with your with your Facebook group. Because there’s yeah, we’ve touched on most of those. But yeah, I think that’s the nuts and bolts, I don’t want to overwhelm people too much. But I think that the biggest thing is thinking about those awake times, not getting too I know that people can get quite fixated on it and feel a bit anxious about the awake time, sometimes. It’s just a guide, and you use those awake windows in conjunction with looking at your baby, you know, are they showing you those tired signs? Have they had a nice full feed? Is it coming up to that 40 minute to an hour? If they’re younger baby sort of under four weeks? And are they starting to maybe yawn? Are they starting to rub their face? Are they starting to suck on their hands? You know, are they joltier sometimes they can get a little bit jerky, when they’re getting tired. There are so many signs to look out for that kind of learning to read your baby.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, and I remember trying to do this. Multiple times. But I remember thinking I could have sworn that they had tired signs right from when they first wake up. And they’re just tired, and they probably were tired. But what would you suggest then is if they’re nowhere near their awake cycle, but they’re already tired?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, so sometimes those tired signs can actually be very similar to hunger cues. So, I guess, you know, when they wake up, I like that basic feed play sleep pattern in the in the newborn phase. So, when they wake up, offer a feed. And then you know, generally, you know, for a lot of a lot of mums, the feed might take, you know, half an hour or 45 minutes. So, then you pretty much already at that awake time anyway, that follow your baby’s lead if they’re if they’re really sleepy, and you know, it’s only been half an hour, that’s okay. Particularly in that first four weeks, they have so many of your lovely maternal hormones and they are just sleepy. That’s what I was saying when they get to sort of seven eight weeks really see them just like wake-up. Parents talk about that quite a lot. They just like that it’s just like they’re a different baby. And that’s because as I said those sleep hormones are wearing off. And then the circadian rhythms and all those kinds of inbuilt hormones that they’ve got a starting to really take effect. So, their cortisol, which is their natural kind of awake hormone, that’s, that’s really kind of settling in, and then melatonin, which is their sleepy hormone that’s also settling in. And that’s why offering sleep in a dark room is really important, because melatonin is only secreted in the dark. So, if they’re sleeping in a light room that melatonin production is actually blocked. So yeah, it’s kind of looking at all those things too. I love the clients who work in health care.

KATH BAQUIE

That’s right. And with the melatonin production, is that a reason to get your baby outside if possible, during the playtime?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah. So the other benefit of being out in in the daylight and sunlight is that helps boost their serotonin production, which actually is very beneficial for sleep like quality and quantity of sleep. That’s the same for us as well. You know, if you’ve had a day at the beach, outside all day, you’re really tired that night. And it’s because of that you’ve been exposed to sunlight and fresh air all day, your serotonin levels will be high. And that really helps with quality and quantity of sleep. So obviously you’re not going to have them outside all day, but even just having some small snippets of time where you’re out, you know, and they’re just exposed some daylight really, really helps.

KATH BAQUIE

Yep. Great that so many good little tip bits of information there that we’ve just dived into a lot in a short period. So, thank you. To finish off with, any final words of wisdoms for I guess pregnant mums or mums in this newborn 0-to-12-week stage?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, look, I think, you know, just asking for help. Being open and honest with your partner, if you have one, you know, and if you don’t looking around you for your creating your village. You might have heard of, even if that’s a friend, or a neighbour, or, you know, aunties, or whoever’s in your network, you know, having people to help you just prepare some meals for that initial kind of that first 12 weeks really, because that’s, that’s a really big time for you. And for your baby, you’re both figuring out how this is all going to work. And that’s regardless of whether you’re a first-time parent or a second or third or fourth, this is a new baby. And if you’re going from having one baby to having two or two to three, that’s a huge change as well. So just be kind to yourself. And I think as well, you’re getting your partner really involved and, you know, keeping the lines of communication really open, because I do find so often that, you know, mums will be the primary person, that settling baby, sometimes that can make parents feel really mums feel quiet, you know, quite stuck, and like they can’t get out or do much else. They can’t get out easily to exercise or see their friends. So, starting that from the early days, you know, give your partner that chance to settle your baby and get confident with that and build those skills so that you both feel like you can do that. That’s yeah, it’s a quite a common goal that my one-to-one clients want to work on. Is Yeah, both parents being able to settle baby.

KATH BAQUIE

Such a good goal and such a great piece of advice. Right. Thank you, Jazz, thank you so much.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah. No worries.

KATH BAQUIE

I will link the blog post, where to find you. What’s your Instagram handle for anyone listening?

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, it’s @lets__sleep.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, it’s brilliant. Yeah. And I’ll put it all in the show notes. But thank you so much for joining me today on this really important topic that I think can make a big difference to new parents’ lives.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, absolutely.

KATH BAQUIE

So, having that confidence and that just ability to know what you can do and where to seek help is amazing.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, all thanks for having me.

KATH BAQUIE

Thanks. We’ll touch base soon.

JAZZ KOSTOV

Yeah, sounds good.

KATH BAQUIE

And before I sign off, remember my team and I will be putting together with all the show notes for this episode, including all the links and how to connect with Jazz and that PDF checklist that she talked about. So, head to fitnestmama.com/podcast where all the information is. Have a fabulous day everyone and I look forward to you joining me next week for another episode of the FitNest Mama Podcast.

Thanks for listening to the FitNest Mama Podcast brought to you by the FitNest Mama Freebies found at www.fitnestmama.com/free. So please take a few seconds to leave a review, subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. And be sure to take a screenshot of this podcast, upload it to your social media and tag me, @fitnestmama so I can give you a shout out too. Until next time. Remember, an active pregnancy, confident childbirth, and strong postnatal recovery is something that you deserve. Remember our disclaimer, materials and contents in this podcast are intended as general information only and shouldn’t substitute any medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. I’ll see you soon!